TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO:

I had once applied for a seminary for a minor seminary when I was in eighth grade. It wasn’t with the Carmelites, it was with the Columban Fathers. I waited a whole summer to get my notice as to when I should go to Buffalo, New York to their minor seminary. I did not get that notice. And two weeks short of going to high school, I didn’t have a high school.

So my sister, whose marriage was regularized by one of the parish priests, who actually went to school here at St. Cecilia’s, Father Munson, he said, “I’ll get him into school.” So he got me into a Benedictine high school, Coed High School. It was a wonderful thing. It was a great blessing to have not been accepted by the Columbans in my eighth grade year after a year of discernment from a a vocation rally that had taken place in 1961.

So I went to regular high school and in my junior year, between junior and senior year, my parish priest was having his 25th anniversary as a priest and he was leading a group on pilgrimage in Europe. I asked my mother about accompanying him. So I was his altar server for 22 days and we did six countries. One of the places we stopped at was Lisieux. And St. Therese made a big impression on me there. And I think I alluded to it earlier when I said when I was baptized at 22 days old, the first photograph taken me was a picture of her over me in the bedroom I would have for my first 16 years. And I had a grandmother named Theresa who had a devotion to the Little Flower. I did not know those things until later.

But within two years of that visit to Lisieux, I was a little flower seminarian.

But the year in between was a discernment year. I finished high school. I was 19 years old. I liked school so much that I had done 10 years of grade school and four years of high school. And so I was doing a lot of spiritual reading. And one of the readings I came upon while working a night shift with my brother-in-law from 10 at night [day in the morning] with two hours off between two and four for whatever he wanted to do, I read. And one of them was the work of Thomas Merton, “Disputed Questions.” And he had a whole section on ancient Carmelite spirituality.

And I’m saying to myself, “How is this Cistercian so big on Carmelite spirituality? Let me look into this.” So I began to look into that. And of course that meant Carmelite authors. But his own approach to the ancient Carmelite way was such that I just felt that if this man is so high on something he’s not a member of, let me explore it. So I did that for the better part of the year and from high school graduation to entering Carmel. It was 15 months of discernment. A great time in my life. My parents were so affirming of me taking my time deciding.

So I basically boiled it down to the Vatican II documents. And I read the documents on the appropriate renewal of religious life. And I said, “I want to go with a group that has been around a long time and has undergone many changes.” And so I got it down to the mendicants. And then I said to myself, “Well, Augustinians of St. Augustine, Franciscan St. Francis, Dominican St. Dominic.” But Carmel is the Garden of God. It doesn’t have a historical founder. That’s actually a positive.

And so I explored it more. I realized there was a couple of branches. And I went with the ancient observance. And I must say that was very directed by Providence because it’s been 59 years from today when I wrote my letter to be accepted to my entrance six months later to surviving that first year with the fire that we had in Niagara to transfer to Milwaukee after novitiate. And then subsequent summer’s ministries at Joliet, at the Rosebud Reservation. That was with Ron Oakham. And then on to Theology. After I did my internship, I was the first intern at St. Terese of Lisieux Parish in Cresskill. Again, another thing with St. Therese. And in a few weeks, I’m going to have my 50th anniversary Mass where I had my first Mass 50 years and one day later.

So the ministries that I’ve had, in particular, the parish ministries here in New Jersey, St. Joseph’s in Demerest, which we had for years, I did nine years there in two different shifts, 1977 to 1981 and then 1996 to 2001. And in between that time, I did some missionary work in Peru at the Suquani Prelicer, Czechokupe in Pitamarca with Brother James Ganey. And I got hepatitis and I was laid up in bed for nine months until they got the negative things out of my system. Then I was reassigned after the chapter of 1984 to New Baltimore, Pennsylvania, where we had been from the beginning of the 1870s. And I was the third consecutive solo pastor there, the last Carmelites. And I transitioned from 1984 to 89 before we gave that parish to the Altoona-Johnstown diocese. But it was wonderful being at a rural parish for five years. But unlike my brothers who had spent one year there in Novišet and were happy to survive a winter in Pennsylvania, I had five of them. And it was a great experience.

And during that time also, I discovered my family was larger than I had thought it was. When I had that hepatitis and laid up in bed, uncles and aunts were dying. And when I went back to Peru for six months, my maternal uncle had died. My father’s two brothers had died. My own godmother had died and a cousin in that six-month period. So I started looking into the family being larger but not necessarily known to me. And I discovered them in Ireland and in Germany and established great relationships with them.

Also, after my father died in 1992, it so happens I was organizing a 100th anniversary celebration for my grandparents’ emigration from the fatherland. And someone followed looking for Grace Bettinger, my mother. And I thought it had to do with the reunion for the German side. It had to do actually with my mother’s side. My mother had three sons before she married my father. I did not know I had three brothers because it was an Irish secret. And so after I was 47 years old to 50 years old, I found out I had three natural brothers, which I was very excited about. Also, the family expanding. And it’s been a very great blessing for me to have that. A little more concerning for my sisters who thought we were just three people instead of six. But it’s been a great blessing for me.

And in the Carmelite Ministries, especially when I came back to New Jersey after New Baltimore, Pennsylvania, I’ve been here consistently now since 1990. Between 1990 and 96, I worked with Carmel Retreat in Mahwah. In 1996, I was asked to go back to Demerist for five years with Bill O’Malley, Father Bill O’Malley, because he was living alone and they thought I would be good for the community. Then when I had my 25th anniversary as a priest, I asked for a sabbatical. And they said, “If you go to a Begota for a year and help out there, we can give you that sabbatical.” So I went to Begota, St. Joseph’s in Begota, which we had at that time. And I helped out there until one of the other fathers who was in training, I came along to take that place. And that was Father Supple.

And then I did a six-month traveling sabbatical to Carmelite friaries on six continents, six months. It was really a wonderful experience. And at the time, Leo McCarthy was the Provincial, and he said, “Well, I want you to write up a paper on this.” By the time I came back, he was replaced by John Russell, who said, “I’m not interested in that paper.” But I did submit it anyway. And it was a wonderful experience meeting other forms of Carmelite community in Europe, in particular the Netherlands, Florence in Italy, Sicily in various locations in Sicily, Malta, Zimbabwe in Africa, multiple places in the Philippines, Lausanne, Viscayez, Mindanao. Then on to Australia, to the eastern three states, and Victoria and Queensland, and then New South Wales. And then on to Peru and Mexico, and then finished up with visits to houses we had at the time in Arizona, Kansas, Kentucky.

And then immediately when I came back, one of our men died. He actually fell on my birthday, February the 8th, 2003, and hit his head on the ground and got up and went back to Leonia. That was Ronald Gray. And he died in his sleep. And so I inherited the car that he had. And I went on to become part of the member of the staff at the Bergen Town Center, which was then called Bergen Mall. And we had that ministry for 47 years, and I was a member of it for the last 14 years of that, including being the director for 13 of the 14 years of that.

It was a marvelous ministry, hearing confessions every day, three Masses a day, confessions before each Mass. And many times there would be so many people before mass for confessions, you’d have to go back. And if you even thought there was only one or two persons, when you went back, there’d be five or six or eight or 10. And it was a great experience.

And we had to, unfortunately, leave the original location, which was in the basement for 37 years. And I scrambled to find another place in the mall structure. And we had actually a better location for the last 10 years. But they told me right from the start, it’s a month-to-month operation. And we’ll let you know when we need this. But I didn’t hear from them the first year. Then two years, five years, we’re moving on 10 years, finally I get the phone call a month before I turned 70. And I had begun that ministry when I was 55.

And so they told me, “A renter wants the whole floor, and you’re the only one left on that floor, and therefore you’re vulnerable. And we’ll try to help you find another location.” But we looked for six months, and it just wasn’t in the cards for us. And one of the great objections was, when you especially went to the smaller malls, “We can’t give you parking places more than 12 cars.” Well, we had room for over 100 people in the chapel. And so after six months of futility, I asked if I could retire. And so I retired, 70 and a half years old.

And at first I wanted to move immediately here to St. Cecilia’s, but the house was full. And so the Provincial at the time said to me… in my letter of request for retirement, which I sent to Bill Harry and the council, I said, “I have a ministry to priests that come to see me for spiritual direction and confession. I’d like to stay on here in Jersey.” I’ve been a member of what’s called the New Jersey Fraternity of Priests since 1990 and three years earlier in Pennsylvania. And it’s a nice group. We meet on Fridays, have a time before the Blessed Sacrament. We have sharing time. We pray the liturgy of the hours. And so they said, “Why don’t you ask one of your priest friends to move in with them, at least for now.” And I did that in Emerson and I was there for five, six Christmases until Paul Schweitzer died who lived in this house. He died in November. And then I petitioned to move in here and I moved in here at beginning of January, three years ago. And it’s a great blessing. I lived with Dan and I lived with Emmett before in St. Anastasia’s. Also, I lived with Herman before in St. Anastasia’s. These were not newcomers to me. Newcomer to me was Nelson, which is a true delight. His experience is in Chicago and in Bronx. So that’s been a blessing to reenter a community.

Now, when I was in Emerson, the pastor was a third-order Carmelite, which was nice, Bolkineriato. Matter of fact, Father Paolo, Anthony Paolo, whose birthday is today, who’s been deceased for some years, lived in this house. And he prepared him to become a late Carmelite, but then he got sick and I brought him into the order, not knowing at all that I would once petition him. And that was a strange thing because when Bill Harry phoned me, I was sitting in a dental office five minutes before three fillings. And he told me, “Ask one of your priest friends.” So that was Closter. And that was the dental office in Closter. And my friend, Paul Canariato, had been the pastor in Clostar and just moved to Emerson, two towns, three towns away. And so he hadn’t yet even been installed.

So I went over there in early August and we sat down and he said, “Let’s ask the Cardinal.” So we wrote the Cardinal in August. All of August went by. All of September went by. And now it’s installation day for Father Paul in October, October the 22nd, and still haven’t heard from the Cardinal. So I said to Bishop Felisi, who was one of the auxiliary bishops, we sent in a letter over two months ago about me moving in here, being with Paul and Father Chris Asinta, an African priest. Two days later, I got a letter predated from the 20th saying, “Oh, you got all the faculties. Father Harry’s name is down here and all the other bishops are down here and you’re fine.” So that began November 1st, 2017. And I stayed there until the first days of 2023, I guess it was. And then I’ve been here since.

And I do occasional Masses out, less so now since my leg is acted up. But I do hear a lot of confessions. A lot of people come from that experience of them all, lay people, and priests that come to see me. And it’s a great blessing to be a priest, to minister to another priest and have him minister to you in the same time. And it’s a great blessing. And I have three or four confessors because I have three or four priests that come for confessions. And so it’s a really marvelous thing.

And of course, this house is a special house for this valley. It’s the mother house for all the parishes we had here. Out of this parish developed nine parishes, a retreat house, a chapel in a mall, and even the shore house subsequently. And of course, we’ve been reduced to three churches now. But this is a unique parish and a unique place to be a Carmelite since we have “ownership.” And the traditions here, the Vince Lombardi tradition.

But as I said, that Father Munson was a student here. I don’t know if you ever heard of Father Guy McPartland. Father Guy McPartland was also a student here. And he was healed by St. Therese as a three-year-old in New York. And then the family moved to Bergenfield. And then he went to this high school. And in his senior year, and this is a championship year, and he’s the captain of the team, this boy who had polio in his legs as a three-year-old is now the captain of a team, winning team.

And Father Chris McElroy, who was a vocation director at the time from Rhode Island, he gave a talk on recruitment for Carmel. And he said, “You know, not that long ago we lost a good man in Dochau named Titus Brandsma. Who’s going to take his place?” And Father Guy thought he was looking right at him. So after the day went, he came to the back door, the door you came through a little while ago. Knocked on the door, and a brother answered the door and says, “Yes, I’d like to talk to Father Chris.” And Father Chris came down in a white t-shirt. He says, “Yes, you want to talk to me?” “Yeah, I think I might be the replacement for that Titus Brandsma.”

And that boy who had polio went on to be a chaplain at St. Peter’s Medical Center for 25 years on terrazzo floors, eight years in the Marines, one of which was in Vietnam. And then he went on to work with me in the chapel at the end and held up into his 80s. And we have stories like that, people that are associated with this parish. And we found out some time ago that Charles Osgood was an alumnus of here. I didn’t know that right away.

And so now with our grade school and high school being rented to a charter school and the French Academy, we see a lot of children on the grounds. There’s a lot of life here. And it’s now a bilingual parish here. And Father Roberto, which you interviewed, at 40 years old has plenty of energy. Father Herman in his 60s is especially good with the physical plant here. He came to the Carmelites as a cousin of one of our Carmelites, Father Leonard Kinsler, and had an aunt or so, also that was a nun.

We’ve got interwoven stories. And my entry is more like what people do today than it was in the 60s. I didn’t know any Carmelites like Father Dan knew the Carmelites here. He went to this parish. I came by reading, by spiritual reading. And I think that’s a lot of times people now are discovering Carmel through our history, through mysticism and the like. And it’s all part of our way of contributing to the greater church.

So in my latter years now, now being 79 years old, I’m looking forward to, as the youngest old guy in the house right now, to get into my 80s like the other fellows are, and to continue to [minister] because people do come to see you. And I had a man here this morning, 80 years old, who was here to find out about a cousin of his who was a priest and didn’t know what happened to him. I found out for him. And these stories that are interwoven are such life-giving stories. And the ministry has blessed me repeatedly.

And of course, when I finished high school and went back for my papers to send on to Carmel, one of the sisters asked me there at the Sacred Heart High School, Benedictine sister, “Oh, why are you enjoying the Carmelites?” I said, “One of the things,” I said, “Well, it’d be nice to get closer to Mary because other people have great devotion to Mary and I know that’s something I would like to have.”

And of course, joining a Marian order, a lot of stuff rubs off on you. And that’s very important. Also, the fact that we have mystical founders, Elijah, Elisha. At my weekend for my ordination at First Mass, I picked the fourth chapter of Luke that mentions Elijah and Elisha. And it was a joint homily and propagation of the gospel with deacons reading various parts and very affirming to be with your brothers in this. And as I asked you, I think yesterday about how Father Joe Atcher was doing or my other classmate, Father Ron Oakham, we’ve been in this together for 59 years. And that’s one of the joys of having a long-term relationship.

And when I first entered Carmel, this (points to his grey beard and then to his balding head) was up here and it was brown and I was half the size I am now. And eventually, when I went south of the equator, the hair went south of the eyes, and I let the beard grow because I didn’t want to get an infection cutting myself because my experience of trimming my face every day was always bloody. Every day, I was bleed[ing] somewhere and I couldn’t chance having an infection in the tropics. And it’s been here now since 1981, so it’s 45 years.

So I’m pleased that I’m in the Province of the Most Pure Heart of Mary. Again, when you join groups, you don’t know all of the realities. I could have just as easily perhaps joined the SELs, St. Elias, which has far less men and a shorter history here. But part of it was that when I was learning about Carmel, I went to visit a friend at the seminary in Mawah, the Darlington Seminary that was there, and he told me that there was a retreat house at the bottom of the hill. And of course, to me, it was a longer bottom of the hill than he indicated.

When I went there, I met the guys at the Carmel retreat house. And they had a pamphlet that was put out in 1960 and I’m there in 1967 and I’m looking at this book and it had a young man on it with a diploma in his hand who looked like me when this (points to his grey beard) was up here and it was brown. And the question on the cover was, “What now? What now?” And I went through that and there were so many things in that book that touched me personally, including the Bavarian connection. My grandparents were Bavarians. The year that the Carmelites came over here, my grandfather was born, things like that that seemed incidental were links. And so the Carmelite Province began here in 1890 and my grandparents’ came, 1893 to New Jersey.

So there were a lot of things like that that I didn’t see in the other groups. It was a personal thing. It touched me personally. And spiritual reading has remained a very important part of my spirituality. And it’s important that also you share it with someone. So we’ve had lots of discussions. There’s a woman who’s helped me out greatly and she’s working on my 50th anniversary. She’s a consecrated virgin from New York who moved to New Jersey, Susan Monroe, OCV. And Susan and I have discussions on spirituality. And it’s great to have a person interested in that who you can talk to frequently. And she has great skills on the computer.

And then there’s all these other lay people who plug in and out of your life over years. And I’m looking forward to that 50th anniversary where so many of them will appear in one place together when I’ve seen them separately over many places here in New Jersey, Pennsylvania, and perhaps even beyond.

I thank you for doing the interview. Maybe I’m shorter than others have been but it’s a great opportunity to at least express gratitude to the Carmelites.

Father Herman’s cousin, Leonard Kinsler, was from Pittsburgh area. And Father Leonard had many things happen in his life which were not positive. He had tuberculosis as a young priest. He was also put in charge of a house where there were men with addictions. And then he came down later in his life with dizziness and it had to be rectified by a diet. And he had to eat steak every day and green beans and something. And other people said, “That’s a great meal.” Not 365 days a year.

Father Leonard used to have a phrase. He used to say, “I wouldn’t have a pot to piss in without the Carmelites.” I mean, that kind of summed it all up. And he gave his life for Carmel. He died six months after my father did. They were both 85, 86 years old. And men like that have been inspirations. Killian Healy, who was our prayer general. Some of our brothers have been such great inspiration. Brother Gabe, Murray, great inspiration with his stuttering problem that he had. And other brothers in particular, the spirituality that they cultivated.

And so we’re the recipients of a long tradition. And I’m pleased that Providence has guided me here and Providence keeps me here.