TRANSCRIPT OF INTERVIEW

Little Flower Schrader Behind the Shield Interview TRANSCRIPT

Host

Today we’ll be speaking with Father Tom Schrader, O.Carm., Director of the Society of the Little Flower. The Society of the Little Flower promotes devotion to St. Thérèse of the Child Jesus, the Carmelite Nun and Doctor of the Church.  Through prayers and donations, friends of St. Thérèse enable Carmelites throughout the world to make a difference in people’s lives.

Father Tom, just kind of introduce yourself with a little bit of a real quick overview of the ministries you’ve served and how you ended up serving at Little Flower.

Father Tom

You know, what’s kind of fascinating is recently we had an intern gathering at our community here at St. Simon Stock, and we were kind of talking about, you know, their experiences interns, but also you can’t help but remember your experience as an intern. So I basically started my ministry with the Carmelites as a teacher at South Point High School in Tucson, Arizona, and then went back to the hall and then out to ministry again.

And as a deacon, I served at St. Rayfield Parish in Los Angeles.

With Father Tracy. And, you know, one of the things that you can’t help but think about during that time is all the experiences that you’ve had as an intern, you know, when you’re helping out and learning. And then when I finally came to my ministry as an ordained Carmelite, I served at Crespi Carmelite High School, first as a teacher, then as a vice principal, and eventually as the president. Where I served for nine years. And that was really where I got my first taste of fundraising as a president and really learning to have the relationship with people and to help to grow the ministry and really expand it and make it a place that’s exciting for the future. Because I think that’s kind of what we’re doing in fundraising. We’re kind of planning for the future.

And then I went to Bishop Ward High School in Kansas City, Kansas, where I served for the archdiocese there. And we might remember the Carmelites had been in Kansas for over 150 years. And then I came here to Little Flower after serving there. So I kind of had that experience of really kind of being all over. But my true passion has always been education, Catholic education. And so Little Flower, in a sense, is a little bit of doing that as well.

Host

On Little Flower, a little more specifically, how it came to be, how the Carmelite Order formed it, and its mission.

Father Tom

Little Flower really, essentially, let’s start with it’s Thérèse. We’ll start with Thérèse, because it was really her just sheer gift as someone that was truly touched by God, that really brought so many people to begin to see how incredible her life really was. Really through the story of a soul that it came to be known by so many people. But also people began sharing stories about her, sharing, you know, experiences that they had. And really from very beginning, Thérèse was touching people’s hearts, you know, with her message, you know, obviously the Little Way, but also her message of sending down a shower of roses, you know, from heaven. And I think for us as Carmelites, We jumped on that bandwagon if you wanna see it that way in terms of how powerful she was. And from my understanding, it’s really Albert Dolan, you know, Carmelite that brought that message here to Chicago.

And it started out small. It wasn’t, you know, a huge thing at first, but the devotion spread. And, you know, from our parish that we had there in Chicago, you know, that message spread. There was a shrine there. Not a formal shrine like we have today, but certainly a shrine. And then, you know, the whole point of Little Flower is to promote devotion to St. Thérèse and also to, you know, help us to learn about her life, but also to provide donations for the seminarians and for Carmelite ministries.

And that’s our simple mission, and it’s been that way forever. It’s, you know, it’s over 100 years old. And it’s really people’s really experience of Thérèse and having their prayers answered and knowing that she listens to them, that really helped us to grow. Now there’s also a tradition that we helped with the canonization process as well. And that’s something I’m sure, as we know, it’s not something that’s easy to do. It does take finances. And that was something that we also helped with. And as you also might know, we have here on the Darien campus, the largest number of artifacts that Thérèse used, items that she touched, that she made, anywhere else in the world except for Lisieux.

Host

So that’s something that’s pretty remarkable. So people can come here and see those kind of beautiful things that Thérèse did here at the museum at the National Shrine of St. Thérèse. All of these artifacts that are here, as I understand it, a lot of it is because of a very personal relationship between the Carmelites and Lisieux, but maybe because partially helping with the canonization. We can talk a little bit about that.

Father Tom

You know, essentially the items were, they wanted to promote Devotion to Thérèse as well. And so they were willing to share items with us. At that time, I’m not sure there’s quite a few items if you go, to Lisieux today and you can see them yourself. Or if you go to Alençon as well, there’s quite a few items there. But it’s really the sense that they wanted to share those items with the world and with the United States. And I think one of the things to keep in mind is that there was probably a personal relationship with the Carmelites at that time in terms of visiting Lisieux, promoting devotion to St. Thérèse. And I think the nuns also had a missionary spirit as well.

They realized that there were Carmelites in the United States. They realized that we were, at that time, a really prime place for growth of vocations. And I think they desired for us to participate in the life of Thérèse in that way. And so they wanted to share those items with us. And it’s really pretty incredible to think of the things that we do have here. At the museum, including a painting by Thérèse’s sister, Celine, of Thérèse. So that’s pretty amazing.

It really is.

Host

And that’s, I know we have photos of just about everything in here, so I’ll put some of those up on the screen. I know two of the kind of highlights, the cell, which has some particular parts in it, and the sculpture.

Father Tom

Right.

Host

Talk a little bit about.

Father Tom

Well, the cell is, what was happening is that they were doing some remodeling at the Carmel in Lisieux and they were, you know, there comes a point in time where we might think nothing should ever change, but they realized they needed things to change in order to plan for their future as well. So they replaced the windows, which we have the windows, you know, from a cell like Thérèse’s. And we also have part of the floor and we also have the door. So they really tried to give us items, and this is really rather recently, this isn’t, you know, at the time of Thérèse, this is recently, in order to basically create a cell like Thérèse’s cell here in the United States. And that part, I think, is really kind of amazing because you can see and experience the place where Thérèse lived. And what always strikes us, I think, is how small it was. How simple it was, and how it kind of informs us of the austere life that the sisters did live at that time.

And then, you know, with this particular wood carving that we have, it really gives us so many of the highlights of Thérèse’s life. And it’s supposedly, you know, again, I don’t really like to say all these things are, you know, the biggest in the world and that kind of thing, but it is supposedly one of the biggest wood carvings in the United States. And it’s a way for us to really understand and experience Thérèse’s life and to see also her parents’ relationship with her and her sister’s relationship with her as well. So it’s an easy way for people to see and experience the life of Thérèse.

Host

Then at the museum, and of course, one of the major focus of Little Flower having to be fundraising to support the museum, the shrine, and the ministries of the Carmelites. There are various ways to support either donating while you’re here or the, I’m gonna forget the name of it. Larger giving. Yes.

Father Tom

You know, basically the whole point of Little Flower is really the participation. And so sending out articles that, you know, kind of helped to strengthen people’s relationship with Thérèse, you know, different quotes of hers, different ways of responding to the time of year. the Or the season, or, you know, whether it’s the liturgical season or just the time of the year in terms of spring, summer, you know, those kinds of seasons. And we have that opportunity to really see how Thérèse’s life experience and her quotes really help us to understand how she was able to live her life in, you know, relationship to our Lord and also to, you know, Mary. You know, her mother and our mother. And it was a time that we really had to kind of reach out to people. You know, most of our materials are informational.

And then, you know, the donation is really meant to help us with the ministries. And primarily, as we may or may not know, our most really kind of critical ministry is you know, the education of seminarians, it’s very expensive as we know, and there’s so many different levels as a Carmelite in terms of formation. So we’re helping with the pre-novitiate, which is people that are entering into, you know, religious life and thinking about becoming a Carmelite. We’re helping with the novitiate, which is really an intensive year of learning about being a Carmelite and experiencing it firsthand, which leads you to simple vows, and then with the seminary that we have in Washington, D.C., but also the seminary we have in Peru, but also the seminary we have in El Salvador. So our formation is really set up really across our province. And I think that’s a really important experience that we all have because now we’d like to say we are a bilingual province. It’s something that we’re really working toward.

Luckily, I had the opportunity to study Spanish in Mexico when I was, you know, in the in formation. And so it’s something that is, I think the future generations will continue to be real comfortable with that and realizing that we’re really reaching out to people, you know, who knows what will be in the future. But for right now, you know, we really are reaching out to people that have had an experience of the Americas. Let’s say, and are able to share that with one another as well.

Host

When you talk about giving, there are several different ways. If there’s someone local here or they come visit, of course, there’s ways to donate while they’re here.

Father Tom

Right.

Host

And then there’s the mailings, and then there’s planned giving a little bit of the different options.

Father Tom

Essentially, let’s say our bread and butter, as we like to say, is the mail that people receive and then respond to those donations. And those donations really help us with, you know, running the side of Little Flower and being able to help the province and its ministries. But then we also have planned giving, which is a way for us to, whether through the annuity program or through people remembering us in their estate plans, being able to help the long-term, long-term health of the province and its ministries. But then we also have ways that people can decide to give through online giving. Some people do that. We are really moving into that area of the internet.

It’s kind of the future. But realistically, it’s the mail that we receive that continues to be what helps to sustain us. One of the things that I would say is that when we do promote people’s interest in giving, It’s really from their heart. It’s not from something that, you know, they’re being pressured into or anything like that. And I think most of the time it comes because of their relationship with Thérèse and their experience of Thérèse in their life. And it’s, I would say it’s a way of thanking her for what they’ve already received. And it’s a way of maybe participating in, you know, her desire for the message of our Lord to be spread throughout the world.

And we certainly do that because not only do we help our Carmelite Province, as we know, but we also help the Carmelites throughout the world. I mean, one of the gifts we have of being here in the United States is that, and also in Canada, is that we are blessed countries and we have the ability for, you know, many people that would be, you know, middle class people, ordinary people that really can make a sacrifice and, you know, can help out with our Ministries. But I’ll always come back to It’s because of Thérèse. It’s because of their relationship with Thérèse. And with their experience of her touching their hearts and their lives and responding to her prayers.

Host

We talked about this a little bit with Father Chris, but because we’re sitting in front of the nativity, I know Christmas at the Crib was just this past Friday. Can you talk a little bit about that event having taken place, what that was?

Father Tom

You know, essentially it’s one of those events that has kind of grown over the years. One of the things that we have. Our Little Children’s Choir come in with also some adults and we sing Christmas songs. If I was really going to see what I experienced with this is it’s an opportunity for us to experience that kind of like old time sense of what it means to be a Catholic at the Christmas, during the Christmas season. During the Advent season, as that time preparation.

It’s meant for children, but there’s, you know, plenty of adults and people that are senior citizens come as well to experience it. But my real understanding is where else do really a cross section of people get to for one hour listen to the story of the birth of Jesus and get to sing some of their favorite Christmas songs along with the choir. So it’s an experience of community more than anything else. And it’s a time for us to really– it’s almost like a flashback to the past, where we truly, what the Christmas season is about is what we experience here at Christmas at the Crib. And I think it’s such a wonderful way to put it. And we’re lucky enough to have this incredible manger scene. It’s really, I don’t think St.

Patrick’s Cathedral has a nicer one. I don’t think so. If you want to write in and tell me a nicer one, please do. But it’s pretty incredible.

Host

I think that that’s also saying you get to have that experience. Having the museum here, so many people in the States and Canada and even in, you know, Central America, so much easier to get here and truly experience Thérèse, some things from her life, that offers that opportunity here.

Father Tom

Exactly. One of the things that’s kind of fun, what I do is I visit a lot of our donors and they’re all over the country. And also I visit donors in Canada as well. And one of the things that I always find is that a lot of the donors that I’ve met with on the East Coast because it’s, you know, we happen to be Niagara Falls, Ontario, which kind of helps, but have been to both shrines. And they’re so different from one another, and they really speak to people’s experiences and the time, and, you know, just even the life of the Carmelites. But a lot of them feel really strongly about both shrines. And I think it’s an opportunity for us to kind of see what a gift we really have there in terms of being able to, you know, have a shrine here in the United States, and also have the shrine in Niagara Falls, Ontario as well, because they’re incredibly peaceful, prayerful places.

And that might lead into, you know, as a Carmelite, you know, we are, that’s our ministry. Our ministry is prayer. And we bring that time of just reflecting, of slowing down, of listening to our Lord. And this is one of the times, especially during this Advent season, in this time of preparation, in this time of hope, for us to really focus on in our prayer, in our relationship with God, of what we’re asking for. And the readings are pointing us toward this incredible hope as well in the daily masses. And the whole season is really an opportunity for us to really know how much our Lord desires to touch us. And Thérèse is, for so many of us, an instructor in terms of how we can live that life.

Host

One thing I want to touch on just because we talk about the money and the donations, and we have the beautiful new shrine over here, but the money really goes to supporting the ministries and Carmelite spirituality. The shrine was a major donor. Right. Helped put that in place.

Father Tom

Right. So if you want to talk a little bit. Sure. You know, the Peterson Foundation, you know, they, the main supporters, you know, Robert and Margie Peterson. And I think one of the things that is amazing, it’s one gift for the new shrine building. And it’s truly a gift of someone, Margie especially, that was really touched by St. Thérèse. And she desired to promote devotion to St.

Thérèse and all all the stories that I’ve heard about her from her friends. And I think for us, it’s also a reminder of, you know, there’s people that are able to be that generous at times. And, you know, one of the things, when you see the shrine, for the first time especially, you recognize it’s the Shrine of St. Thérèse. You walk in and you see, you know, the 30-foot etching of St. Thérèse. And you just are really kind of overwhelmed by it in some ways.

It’s very simple. It’s clean architecturally, I think you’ll see that. And it’s an experience of Thérèse’s presence with the, you know, the roses letting, you know, letting the roses fall from heaven. And I think for us, it’s one of those gifts that’s, you know, those are kind of generational gifts. That are transformative, but it was made because of a devotion and a love of St. Thérèse, especially the Novena to Rose Prayer. And that’s something that it’s a very simple prayer. It could seem trite to some people, but it’s really a way for us to speak our hearts and our intentions.

Host

To Thérèse, to our Lord. The shrine offers really the local community. So when we talk prayer community ministry, that has created a community in and of itself extended from, but also that people come from around the world. So it opens up for that larger community to come experience the campus. And when you talked about all the details, that the shrine is in reality very simple, but every aspect of it is a specific element of Thérèse’s life, the candles, the clock. Can you talk through those a little bit?

Father Tom

Yeah, I mean, essentially, the whole point of the shrine is that it’s a place for people to come and experience Thérèse. And it’s, I think, as you kind of journey with it, allegedly it’s a rose-shaped, which you are flying in.

I think you did a drone. So, you know, in terms of the shape from above. But essentially, It’s a place that you can experience Thérèse through being there. And I think that one of the things that’s so wonderful about it is the play between the natural scenery and also the architecture itself. So it’s a place where we talked about this wooden etching earlier today. I mean, it’s a place where Thérèse had a lot of experienced outdoors, especially with her dad. And, you know, you can have that same kind of experience of the interplay between nature and, you know, being in church.

So there’s always that openness to looking out. And I think that the clock tower, as you mentioned, was a homage to her father, you know, St. Louis. And it’s in the little lace pieces that are around more or less echo throughout the architecture of the campus is a reminder too of us of Saint Zelie, her mom. And I think all of it kind of fits together. There’s a theme throughout the campus. It’s not just the shrine itself, but it certainly, let’s say, it reaches a crescendo there.

But it’s certainly a place that I think as we walk through the campus, we see so many ways in which Thérèse’s life and Thérèse’s presence kind of echoes throughout the campus. I think the gazebo in the meditation garden is just a wonderful place with the water. And I mean, Thérèse loved being outside. If you go to her home in Lisieux where she grew up, it really was very much an outside place. And she went for walks with her father. There’s a park right across the street.

From her home. So it was really an outdoor experience. And we want people to have that same kind of experience here as well.

Host

As the head of Little Flower and as a Carmelite, living your Carmelite faith serving that ministry, any personal message you’d like to give those devoted to Thérèse, considering giving those who have given?

Father Tom

You know, I think one of the things about Thérèse is that she she’s so simple in her message in some ways, but so profound. I could go into this a lot more, but for a short way of putting it, you know, I think at a time when we live in a very secular world right now, and there is so much emphasis on not looking at the spirituality that’s alive in our world, not seeing how God is present in all things in our world, I think one of the things that we begin to see with Thérèse when we look through her eyes in a way, is as she said to the Carmelite sisters, everything is grace. That God is present to us in so many ways of our lives. And in some ways, I think that’s for the future going into, you know, as we continue as Carmelites in our world, is really bringing that message of how God is present in our lives and reaching out to us and desiring to touch our hearts and our minds and our souls each and every day. I mean, it’s just something that we have to be attuned to that. Because otherwise, if we just see ourselves as, you know, being people that, you know, just live our lives in a very physical world without seeing that spirituality, we’re missing so much of what really is out there in our world. And Thérèse is certainly someone that saw that. You know, I’ll just kind of do.

A little diversion here.

But in New York, there’s a park that’s new that was built on basically train tracks that were abandoned. And it’s kind of in the, you know, the West Village, it runs up to Chelsea. And there’s, it’s called the High Line. And it’s in the middle of New York City. It’s, and it’s on abandoned railroad tracks, essentially. But the thing is what they tried to do with that particular park was to bring in the natural plants, original plants to the area. You have a wonderful view of the city, but also of the river there.

But then you also have this experience of just being in a place that’s very urban, but you have this experience of a natural world as well. And one day I was walking there and there was this little boy in New York, three or four years old, and he shouts out to his mother, a butterfly! And starts to run and chase after the butterfly. And it just struck me, if that’s not Thérèse in our world, nothing is. Because that openness to that sheer presence of something that’s much more than we can understand, it’s not just physically a butterfly, but it’s really opening us up to the freedom that our Lord desires for us to experience in our lives as well.

Host

Thank you very much for taking the time today.

Father Tom

Yes, you’re welcome.

Host

All right.

Father Tom

Thank you.

Host

Thank you.