{"id":22373,"date":"2025-11-25T14:33:14","date_gmt":"2025-11-25T20:33:14","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/carmelites.net\/?p=22373"},"modified":"2025-11-25T14:39:05","modified_gmt":"2025-11-25T20:39:05","slug":"interview-with-cindy-perazzo-t-o-carm-provincial-coordinator-for-the-pcm-lay-carmelite-office","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/carmelites.net\/zh\/carmelite-review\/interview-with-cindy-perazzo-t-o-carm-provincial-coordinator-for-the-pcm-lay-carmelite-office\/","title":{"rendered":"\u4e0e\u8f9b\u8fea\u00b7\u4f69\u62c9\u4f50\uff08T.O.Carm.\uff09\u7684\u8bbf\u8c08 | PCM\u5e73\u4fe1\u5f92\u52a0\u5c14\u9ed8\u7f57\u4f1a\u529e\u516c\u5ba4\u7701\u7ea7\u534f\u8c03\u5458"},"content":{"rendered":"\t\t
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Cindy Perazzo, T.O.Carm. | Provincial Coordinator for the Lay Carmelites<\/h2>\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t
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Interview with Cindy Perazzo, T.O.Carm. | Provincial Coordinator for the PCM Lay Carmelite Office<\/strong><\/p>

Join us for an inspiring conversation with Cindy about the Lay Carmeite Office and the Carmelite Spirituality as lived by the Lay Carmelites.<\/strong><\/p>

In this interview, Cindy discusses how the office operates, what support it provides to the Lay Carmelite community and how it works to spread and grow Carmelite spirituality.<\/strong><\/p>\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t

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Relevant Links from the Interview<\/strong><\/p>

Lay Carmelite Website: www.laycarmelitespcm.org<\/a><\/p>

Lectio Divina Handbook: tinyurl.com\/lcldh2025<\/a><\/p>\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t

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TRANSCRIPT OF INTERVIEW<\/span><\/strong><\/h2>

Ken Pino<\/strong><\/p>

So today we are talking to Cindy Perazzo, the provincial coordinator for the Lay Carmelite office of the PCM Province. Welcome. Thank you for joining us.<\/p>

Cindy Perazzo<\/strong><\/p>

Great to be here. Thank you.<\/p>

Ken Pino<\/strong><\/p>

I guess, first of all, tell us a little bit about what that is, provincial coordinator for the Lay Carmelite office.<\/p>

Cindy Perazzo<\/strong><\/p>

Well, sure. So the provincial coordinator oversees pretty much everything at the Lay Carmelite office. And I say that because our structure, our org chart, so to speak, actually does list a provincial delegate.<\/p>

For a number of years, normally that has been a friar, although it doesn’t have to be. It could be a lay person. But normally for us, it has been a friar. At one point, I believe it was not Father Carl, but Father Bill Harry was the provincial at the time. I think Father Peter McGarry retired and he said, \u201cWell, you know, I don\u2019t think we\u2019re going to replace that position with a friar. So Cindy, you\u2019re it.\u201d<\/p>

So as the provincial coordinator, I report directly to the prior provincial. He\u2019s my direct superior as far as the position is concerned.<\/p>

We have 2,500, give or take, Lay Carmelites, 162 communities. I think it\u2019s about 30 regions and five areas. So we have a lot of layers of Lay Carmelites, and I need to make sure that things are running smoothly.<\/p>

Ken Pino<\/strong><\/p>

I know that to do that and oversee that, you were just recently at the convocation. So you\u2019ve got a staff within your office, although you are a distributed office, and then you also have regionals across. Can you explain a little bit about that structure?<\/p>

Cindy Perazzo<\/strong><\/p>

Sure. Yes, we did have a really\u2014I think it was a really successful convocation. Ken, you were there. It was attended by about 250 Lay Carmelites and friends, and it was a really good experience.<\/p>

But in order to put something like that on, it required a really big team of people. I\u2019ve been very fortunate. It\u2019s always been something I\u2019ve wanted to do or felt called to do\u2014work with teams\u2014because I\u2019m one person now in the office since Sister Libby retired, and I have to make a lot of decisions. But I also like to make decisions with others. I like to hear the other person\u2019s perspective on things.<\/p>

I mean, the Lay Carmelites are so vast. We have life experience, job experience, educational backgrounds, men, women, all ages, 18 to 100. So there\u2019s a lot of good perspective there, and as a leader, I like to utilize that for sure.<\/p>

So we do have a structure. There is a provincial coordinator, which is me. Then Sheri Carioto is our office manager. And now we\u2019ve recently brought on an assistant provincial coordinator, Nancy Bushman. She started with us in July. So that\u2019s the staff.<\/p>

But we have all kinds of people that are working kind of on the periphery and on the sidelines, so to speak, and we couldn\u2019t do this job without them. I really, really depend on them and really value them.<\/p>

So let\u2019s just start at the community level. As I said, we have 162 communities. They all have a structure: there\u2019s a director, formation director, and a council\u2014structured very much like the friars\u2019 structure, their infrastructure, I guess I\u2019ll say. So there\u2019s the community level.<\/p>

Now, we have those 162 communities within about 30 regions, and we have regional leadership. We have regional coordinators and regional formation coordinators. Some of the larger regions have what we call a regional council as well.<\/p>

The regional teams are responsible for planning and instituting days of recollection, weekend retreats. With today\u2019s day and age, we\u2019ve been going with virtual retreats, virtual days of recollection. They\u2019re in charge of that.<\/p>

They\u2019re also in charge now, in recent years\u2014this is the second term we\u2019re doing this\u2014of visitations. Since Sister Libby retired, we knew that we were not going to get another sister to help us out with visitation. Sister Libby\u2014 I don\u2019t know if you know\u2014was traveling like eight months out of the year. She loved it. She thrived on it. But we don\u2019t have any lay people that are really able or willing to do that, and we knew that we couldn\u2019t depend on the sisters any longer, just like we couldn\u2019t depend on the friars to supply us with a provincial delegate.<\/p>

So I brought a team of five people together. When I first brought them together, we called them the Provincial Visitation Task Force. We sat down and had a number of meetings over the course of six, eight, nine months: What are we going to do?<\/p>

The Provincial visitations are crucial to keeping everybody on the same page\u2014that we\u2019re all doing our formation the way we need to do it, that we\u2019re all holding elections the way we need to and when we need to. So how are we going to manage this?<\/p>

So I sat down with these five people on the task force, and we just discussed it: What can we do? We came up with the solution that the regional teams would actually be the ones that conduct the official provincial visitations, which happen once every three years. So we\u2019re in the second term of doing provincial visitations.<\/p>

There is paperwork. The directors and the councils have to fill out what\u2019s going on in the community. The regional teams actually make a physical visitation. Most of them are physical, although we have an open region\u2014that is a region that\u2019s all over North America, Canada, and the United States\u2014that is spread out geographically, so some of those visitations are done via Zoom. But for the most part, we do in-person visitations.<\/p>

And we have an area group. We call them the area coordinators\u2014provincial area coordinators. This just happens to be that task force that I was talking about earlier. They all signed on to continue. I\u2019m so grateful for that because these are really our most experienced Lay Carmelites, both in what they\u2019ve done in leadership for the communities and for their regions, and for their knowledge and experience in everything that\u2019s Carmelite.<\/p>

So they oversee all of the regional teams. We\u2019ve broken them up geographically. I think each of the areas has about 34 communities in it, 34 to 35 communities.<\/p>

Doing that is going very well. And I think one reason it\u2019s going very well is because those regional teams have the ability to follow up. They\u2019re much closer geographically to the communities. Sister Libby would make wonderful visitations\u2014giving all of her wealth of advice and experience to the communities\u2014but there was very little time for follow-up after that.<\/p>

What we\u2019re experiencing now is that we\u2019re noticing things we didn\u2019t notice before. I meet with this group of five area coordinators about every quarter. At this last meeting we had, one of the coordinators was just kind of discouraged, thinking that things weren\u2019t going well. And I said, \u201cNo, no, things are going exactly the way we want them to go, because we\u2019re following up and we\u2019re finding out what\u2019s really going on with the communities.\u201d<\/p>

So I think, in my mind, it\u2019s a system that really puts our finger on the pulse of the communities a lot better.<\/p>

Ken Pino<\/strong><\/p>

And that\u2019s a good point, because I was going to bring up what you mentioned in there: that you are international\u2014United States and Canada\u2014and in 160 communities, 2,500 members. That\u2019s a lot to keep track of, you know, and to maintain that everybody is receiving the resources that they need.<\/p>

I want to go over with you in a second the resources that the office offers to take care of that part. But you do overall manage basically North America. That\u2019s a vast, huge area in two countries.<\/p>

Cindy Perazzo<\/strong><\/p>

Yes, it is.<\/p>

Ken Pino<\/strong><\/p>

And that you found a good way to manage and streamline that through teamwork.<\/p>

Cindy Perazzo<\/strong><\/p>

Yeah. I couldn\u2019t do it without the team, for sure. More than one team.<\/p>

Ken Pino<\/strong><\/p>

Maybe a little bit about the office\u2014what it offers as far as resources and what it provides out to the members\u2014that piece?<\/p>

Cindy Perazzo<\/strong><\/p>

So the office, according to our statutes, the Lay Carmelite office is in charge of keeping track of all of our members. Of course, we depend on the communities to inform us of changes, such as people that have been received into the Order, people that are in phase one (preparation for reception), phase two (preparation for temporary profession), when they\u2019ve made their final profession, and when Lay Carmelites pass on.<\/p>

We need all of that information to keep our database updated. And we\u2019re going to offer an online form to fill out so that they don\u2019t have to put it in the mail. They\u2019ll be able to fill that out online. It\u2019ll go into\u2014well, I don\u2019t know; Doug Bushman is the whiz at all of this, so he\u2019s figured it out. But the Lay Carmelite office has finally jumped into the 21st century, and I think that\u2019s the way we\u2019ll be going in the future, for sure.<\/p>

Ken Pino<\/strong><\/p>

Also, as far as resources from a Carmelite spirituality and faith perspective\u2014the spiritual component of formation\u2014the resources: what resources do you now have available? I know they\u2019re all in print, but online?<\/p>

Cindy Perazzo<\/strong><\/p>

So, yeah. I mean, if we\u2019re going to be Lay Carmelites, we have to be authentically Lay Carmelites, correct? Carmelites. That\u2019s always been very important to me, because it\u2019s a beautiful charism. It\u2019s a wonderful 800-plus-year-old history. Lots of structure, lots of tradition. And we need to know that.<\/p>

We\u2019re actually the bulk of the Carmelites in our province\u20142,500, you know, that\u2019s a lot. I\u2019m sure the First Order and the Second Order would like to see us Carmelite in an authentic way, yes.<\/p>

So we have a very\u2014I guess I\u2019ll call it stringent\u2014formation program. It\u2019s a total of six years to become a fully professed Lay Carmelite. We have a year of phase one formation, which is preparation for reception into the Order. It\u2019s all based on 12 lessons. It\u2019s all basic information on Carmelite history, our spirituality, and our structure.<\/p>

Once they complete that and everybody agrees that this is a good fit, then our candidates are received into the Order. From there, they go into what we call phase two, and that\u2019s further study for 24 months. Currently, we\u2019re using a book and a formator\u2019s guide, and we\u2019re going through all of that history, spirituality, and structure in a deeper way.<\/p>

Once those 24 months are completed, again, we have a decision to make between the council and the candidate. If all goes well, then our candidates make their temporary profession, and that is for a period of three years. During those three years, before final profession, they\u2019re basically living the life of a Lay Carmelite. They\u2019re living the life of the promises they\u2019ve made as Lay Carmelites, according to their state of life. And then if all goes well, they make their final profession.<\/p>

Now, as far as the resources you were talking about: we are generating those into online services. We have a phase one candidate workbook and formator\u2019s guide. Phase two, we have a book, as I said, and a formator\u2019s guide. And then after that, there\u2019s not a \u201cphase three,\u201d but ongoing formation. There\u2019s no special book for that or even a set study for that. As I said, we\u2019re just living the life of a Carmelite\u2014a Lay Carmelite.<\/p>

All of those things are available at the office. They can purchase them if they want a hard copy, but we\u2019re gearing toward, within the next two years, having everything online so that they can have e-books or PDFs, that kind of thing. They can decide what they want to do. And we already have people deciding they want them in all different ways, and that\u2019s fine. We\u2019re offering that.<\/p>

Another thing we\u2019ve added this year, which I\u2019m really proud of, is that the Order for a long time has really encouraged all Carmelites to get back into Lectio Divina. It\u2019s an ancient practice that was recommended, then it wasn\u2019t emphasized, and now the Church and the Carmelites are really encouraging us to do that.<\/p>

Within our meeting agenda, we always offered a very small amount of time for Lectio Divina\u2014not nearly enough. It was 15 minutes, and if you\u2019re familiar with Lectio at all, you know that that\u2019s not enough time to sit with Scripture and listen for God to speak to us through His Word. I find that to be the most important element of our meetings, and we were only giving it 15 minutes out of two and a half hours.<\/p>

So we revised our agenda. Again, I brought another team in, asked another team to join me, and we created a Lectio Divina handbook, which we\u2019re very proud of. We finished it this summer. It\u2019s online. It can also be purchased as a wire-bound, spiral-bound copy or a PDF, three-hole punched to put in a binder. And it\u2019s online as an e-book or PDF\u2014I\u2019m not sure, maybe both.<\/p>

It\u2019s, number one, a resource that gives people options. I think before we had this handbook, it was assumed that we had to do Lectio one particular way or it was no good. Well, that\u2019s not the truth. There are lots of ways to pray with Scripture.<\/p>

So the handbook was, first of all, a resource for them to find out about different ways. We have a resource list in the back that gives them further information\u2014different articles and different books on Lectio\u2014and we recommend those.<\/p>

We encouraged the leaders, the community leadership, to really put Lectio at the forefront of the meeting. We pray the Liturgy of the Hours and then normally go right into Lectio. We decided that, even though it\u2019s still not enough time, we would double the time for Lectio in the community once a month to 30 minutes. And I think we\u2019re more comfortable with that. Of course, we\u2019d like to do more.<\/p>

But really, to pray Lectio once a month in the community meeting is just the start. What we\u2019re hoping is that it will encourage individuals to pray Lectio every day at some point\u2014every day of their life\u2014in listening and in that quiet prayer time. That\u2019s just an extension of all the other aspects of the charism. It really is.<\/p>

So it\u2019s working out. I mean, it\u2019s new. We\u2019ve gotten a lot of comments on it, and I\u2019m proud of that accomplishment that we were able to do as a group.<\/p>

Ken Pino<\/strong><\/p>

Wonderful, wonderful. And that is\u2014as I mentioned when you walked through it\u2014obviously you have to have this big administrative structure in place, but the focus always comes back down to promoting Carmel, encouraging Carmel, and supporting that growth in Carmel through the first two pillars\u2014prayer and community\u2014<\/p>

Cindy Perazzo<\/strong><\/p>

That\u2019s right.<\/p>

Ken Pino<\/strong><\/p>

\u2014of the Carmelite Order. So the resources that you have for that, and that community that everybody has, even though you\u2019re such a large, distributed group, you\u2019ve found a way to keep that community component that is such a strong pillar of the Order.<\/p>

So now we\u2019ve kind of heard how everybody else does. What I\u2019d like to hear now is: how did you come to Carmel, and some of your journey to ending up where you are today?<\/p>

Cindy Perazzo<\/strong><\/p>

Oh, gosh. Okay. So, kind of interesting, I think. I actually stumbled on the Carmelites three different times in younger years.<\/p>

The first was in the early \u201970s. I was actually still in high school. In my hometown, my parish of St. Mary\u2019s, we had a visiting priest that came pretty frequently. He was about 10 miles out from Travis Air Force Base and he was an Air Force chaplain. His name was Father Bill Travers. As it turns out, he was a friar of the St. Elias Province.<\/p>

I had no clue that he was a Carmelite. I don\u2019t know that he ever wore\u2014well, that was a long time ago, so I have no idea if he wore a habit. But what I did know is that he was this huge personality with an equally huge, booming voice, and he liked to tell jokes. He made an impression on me, for sure. I really, really liked him. The parish really liked him.<\/p>

I don\u2019t know how long he stayed. I know I had left home shortly after high school, and when I would come back to visit, eventually he had disappeared\u2014he was gone. He\u2019d been reassigned, I\u2019m sure. But that was my first encounter. He was a Carmelite.<\/p>

Fast forward ten years, and I found myself in Houston, Texas. My husband, Bob, had been transferred there for a job opportunity. I\u2019ll be honest: from a small-town girl in Northern California to the city of Houston in my 20s, I felt like I was on the moon. I really did. It was just so different. Different is not bad, but I was homesick, I guess I\u2019ll say.<\/p>

We actually landed softly at St. Albert\u2019s Parish, which, as it turns out, is no longer served by Carmelites, but it was at the time. Father Stan Cromer was the pastor. Again, I doubt I had any idea that this was a Carmelite-served parish, but it was a comfortable, soft place to land for me. My son Daniel was born in Houston. He was baptized at St. Albert\u2019s. As much as I could as a brand new mom, we were involved in parish life to a certain extent. It was a good, comfortable time for me.<\/p>

Fast forward again: in 1993 we were back in Northern California. We got to come back home. We ended up settling in Fairfield, California. There were, and still are, two parishes in Fairfield: Holy Spirit, which is the more traditional Diocesan parish, and Our Lady of Mount Carmel.<\/p>

When I say \u201ctraditional\u201d about Holy Spirit, I mean it had a traditional worship space. There were two or three priests there. The Masses were all very much what I was used to, in a traditional manner. Our Lady of Mount Carmel met in a geodesic dome with folding chairs. So it was very different.<\/p>

I was being a brat, but when we first got settled I said to Bob, \u201cYou know, I think we should go to the real church. We should go to Holy Spirit.\u201d So the first Sunday we were there, we did. We went to Holy Spirit. It was fine. There was nothing remarkable about it, but it was what I was used to.<\/p>

The second Sunday, I thought, \u201cWe really need to be fair. Let\u2019s go ahead and go to Mount Carmel and see what we think.\u201d So we did. And Ken, I\u2019ll tell you: I walked into that dome with the folding chairs and a huge crowd of people, and it was like\u2014it wasn\u2019t a \u201chit you in the face\u201d kind of thing\u2014but it was like a comfortable exhale: \u201cGosh, I feel like this is home\u201d kind of space.<\/p>

Very shortly after, I found out, yes, this was a Carmelite parish, and yes, this was a very Carmelite parish. Our pastor at the time, Father Kevin, just had a real good spirit about him. The charism was very important to him. He actually started a Lay Carmelite community there with a lay woman, Sherry Bauer, who\u2019s a great friend of mine still.<\/p>

Shortly after we arrived at Mount Carmel, I joined the choir, became a Eucharistic minister\u2014all the things\u2014and I realized there was a Lay Carmelite community there. I saw it in the bulletin and thought, \u201cOh, what is that?\u201d<\/p>

So I kind of invited myself to go to one of their meetings, and it\u2019s kind of like the rest is history. I knew I belonged there. I started initial formation and I was received into the Order in 1995. I made my profession\u2014back then it was just one year, two years, and then you were professed\u2014in 1997.<\/p>

Very shortly after that, I was asked to be the formation director, so I served in that capacity for a year or two. Then there was an election, and I was elected director of the community. I had two terms as director.<\/p>

At Mount Carmel, we had a lot of visitors. We had a lot of friars come to visit us. We met a number of friars that I still know today and value. Toward the end of my term as director, I got a call from our provincial delegate. We still had a provincial delegate at the time, Father John Benedict Weber. I had met him at Mount Carmel.<\/p>

He called and said, \u201cYou know, we\u2019re going to start a region up above San Francisco\u2014Northern California, Northern Nevada. Would you be interested in helping establish that?\u201d And I said, \u201cOh, sure. I\u2019m getting ready to end my term as director. I think I would have the time to do that.\u201d We chatted a little bit.<\/p>

Just as he was hanging up, he said, \u201cOh, and by the way, we\u2019re having an interprovincial Lay Carmelite Commission meeting in Darien in two weeks. Do you think you can fly out for that?\u201d And I said, \u201cOh, well, sure, I think I can do that.\u201d<\/p>

So I was the regional coordinator for the Northern Nevada\u2013Northern California region for two terms. I think it was six years. But I was on that commission for a total of 12 years\u20142003 to 2015, I think it was. And I needed a break. It\u2019s an advisory board, the interprovincial commission, but we do more than advise. It\u2019s really a working commission, between the two provinces, of course\u2014St. Elias and the PCM.<\/p>

So I told Sister Mary, \u201cI really need a break. I\u2019ve been on this for 12 years and it\u2019s time for somebody else to have a turn.\u201d So I stepped aside from that, and I had a whole year of a break.<\/p>

Then I got a call from Father Bill Harry. He was the prior provincial at the time. He said, \u201cI\u2019m going to be in Fairfield. My council and I\u201d\u2014I think they were having a council meeting or something in Fairfield\u2014\u201care going to be there. Do you think we could meet?\u201d<\/p>

And I thought, \u201cUh-oh. What now?\u201d My first thought was actually, \u201cUh-oh, what have I done?\u201d Because the prior provincial doesn\u2019t just call and say, \u201cI want to meet,\u201d right? So I said, \u201cSure.\u201d<\/p>

He came up with a time, and I met with him at the parish office. He said, \u201cSister Mary\u2019s retiring. I was wondering if you would be interested in thinking about becoming the provincial coordinator. I know you won\u2019t move to Darien, but I think we could probably work something out remotely where you could work from a home office and come to Darien maybe four times a year\u2014be with the staff.\u201d It wasn\u2019t Sherry at the time; we had another office manager. \u201cWhy don\u2019t you think about it? Go home, talk to Bob, see if that might work for you.\u201d<\/p>

I really didn\u2019t need to think about it too much, and Bob\u2019s always been very generous with my activities with the Lay Carmelites. So I said yes. That was in\u2014we met in the fall of 2016. Sister Mary retired in 2017, but I think my first day was April the 3rd of 2017, because Father Bill didn\u2019t want to hire me on April Fools\u2019 Day. So he said, \u201cOkay, we\u2019ll make it the third.\u201d And that was almost nine years ago. And here I am.<\/p>

Ken Pino<\/strong><\/p>

And you\u2019ve seen the office of the Lay Carmelites, and the Lay Carmelite structure, go through quite the transition\u2014from Sister Mary and Father JB, as you mentioned, being kind of running that office and overseeing it, to now, as you mentioned, the Lay Carmelites are really running it completely and fully and overseeing the entire thing.<\/p>

So that was a pretty significant transition that you\u2019ve successfully brought the office through.<\/p>

Cindy Perazzo<\/strong><\/p>

Well, I have a lot of support. I\u2019ve always felt both prior provincials that I\u2019ve worked for have trusted me. I value that\u2014it\u2019s humbling\u2014and I value their opinion.<\/p>

I think they know that if I come across something that I feel I shouldn\u2019t or can\u2019t handle, I know that they are always there to listen to me and give me advice. But yet they\u2019ve left me to administer the Lay Carmelites, along with the help of other people, to guide them.<\/p>

That, to me, is huge. I\u2019m the first layperson to have that kind of responsibility in our province, anyway. And I\u2019m finding, as I\u2019m doing a little more international work\u2014we were in Portugal last February for an international Lay Carmelite meeting\u2014that our province, anyway, is really kind of cutting edge, if you want to put it that way, where the Lay Carmelites are trusted.<\/p>

We feel very much valued by the First and Second Order, and it\u2019s a good partnership. It could be a good partnership for the future, too.<\/p>

Ken Pino<\/strong><\/p>

If you, as you run into people\u2014be it at church or out and about\u2014who aren\u2019t Lay Carmelites, maybe even haven\u2019t been introduced to Carmel, maybe have or are just kind of on the skirts of Carmel, what do you say to them? If someone is seeking something more, what would you say to help them determine if Carmel\u2014Lay Carmel\u2014might be what they are seeking?<\/p>

Cindy Perazzo<\/strong><\/p>

Well, I find, and I have sensed this for a long time, that there\u2019s a general seeking within the Church and even outside the Church. There\u2019s just this general seeking for something. And of course, we know that \u201csomething\u201d is God. But a lot of these people who are looking haven\u2019t found anything that\u2019s quite a good fit.<\/p>

There are lots of spiritualities in the Church, and they\u2019re all good, I\u2019m sure\u2014but they\u2019re not all Carmelite. They\u2019re all very different from each other, and we\u2019re all individuals. So I think it\u2019s very important\u2014maybe we don\u2019t exactly \u201cfind\u201d where we\u2019re supposed to be, but I think we\u2019re led, if we\u2019re willing to listen, to where we\u2019re supposed to be.<\/p>

So that would be one of my pieces of advice: look at yourself; look at the various spiritualities. There are lots of lay organizations. All of the orders have either oblates or lay people\u2019s organizations. And we all have different charisms.<\/p>

So do a little research. Look at what the different orders and different organizations offer a lay person. Then think about yourself and how your personality and the way you express your spirituality\u2014how important that is in your life.<\/p>

Then start looking. I always recommend our website. We have a lot of basic information on the website. I will always recommend that we put them in touch with a regional coordinator in their area and see if we can find a community that they could visit.<\/p>

And that\u2019s also why we have the long, six-year program\u2014because it\u2019s important to know that you are where God wants you to be. We want you to be where God wants you to be, or it\u2019s not going to work right.<\/p>

Ken Pino<\/strong><\/p>

So much of Carmel came out in there. You said they should listen to where God is trying to lead them. I think that\u2019s kind of the core I hear from everyone, and that you\u2019re embodying in Lay Carmel: that listening component. I heard that several times in what you just said.<\/p>

Cindy Perazzo<\/strong><\/p>

A lot of us\u2014even Lay Carmelites\u2014we want to talk to God more than we want to listen to God, right? And He\u2019s so patient with us. God is so patient with us. But it\u2019s important to listen. It really is.<\/p>

Ken Pino<\/strong><\/p>

You\u2019ve already talked about several things that are in the works as you move the ministry, I guess, into the 21st century\u2014we\u2019ll call it\u2014for how you keep this large family connected. What are any initiatives that are on the horizon that you can discuss?<\/p>

Cindy Perazzo<\/strong><\/p>

Sure. So the past several years, or couple of years, we had two big things. We were completing and asking for approval of our interprovincial statutes so that we could recreate our Carmel\u2019s Call<\/em>, which is a manual\u2014kind of an all-encompassing manual that has the Rule of St. Albert, the international rule, the provincial statutes, and then all of the \u201cback matter,\u201d I\u2019ll call it\u2014all of the important resource material, ceremonies, and the like.<\/p>

So we completed that, finally, got those printed out, and they\u2019re available. We have a 12th edition now of Carmel\u2019s Call<\/em>.<\/p>

And then the convocation we had this past summer\u2014that was a huge undertaking. Doug and Nancy Bushman were wonderful on-site coordinators. We couldn\u2019t have done it without them. But it was a huge job: finding the speakers, organizing all of that, planning workshops, finding a place to have it. We had it at the Catholic University of America, which was a wonderful place to have our group. It was a good experience for some of us who hadn\u2019t been to college in a long, long time.<\/p>

So we\u2019ve got that done. Now, we met in the fall as a group\u2014the interprovincial commission met in the fall. We met at Niagara, which was a beautiful place for us to meet. And we made a list of the things that we thought we would need to tackle, because these types of things we do interprovincially. We don\u2019t just do them with the PCM and St. Elias separately; we do them together in partnership.<\/p>

We\u2019ve known for a long time that our manuals needed updating, because our statutes changed but the manuals that we\u2019re using now have the old references. So we had a few little cheat sheets that some of our members made up and passed along to the office that told people, \u201cThis is where it is in the new statutes,\u201d but that was just a stopgap.<\/p>

So we said, okay, we need to update our community manuals, our phase one material, our phase two material, and the community manual. Those are the three manuals. We decided that the first priority would be our phase two program because the book we\u2019re currently using is out of print. We have about a three-year supply of that book, so we\u2019re on a little bit of a time crunch there, and we knew we needed to put that as our top priority.<\/p>

Since that meeting in\u2014it was in September\u2014we formed, again, some subcommittees for each of those components, each of those three components. I sent out an email very recently to people that we\u2019ve known and whose names came up at the meeting, asking if they\u2019d be willing to help with these manuals\u2014to help us update them. We\u2019ve gotten a good response so far.<\/p>

So by the first of the year, the first of 2026, these three subcommittees will start meeting. We\u2019ll start planning the community manual and the phase one manual. We\u2019re basically going to leave those as they are, with the exception of the updates.<\/p>

The phase two program is probably going to be completely different. That subcommittee will probably take a good two years to complete the work, because we haven\u2019t decided exactly what way we want to go yet. But that will all come in due time, right? So that\u2019s going to be a huge endeavor for the next couple of years.<\/p>

Of course, we have another convocation on the horizon. I think we\u2019ve decided to have our next convocation in 2028. We don\u2019t have any other details, but we know we want to get back into the schedule of every three-ish years, three to four years. We had a lot longer block between 2019 and 2025 because of the pandemic. So we had to put that off.<\/p>

But it\u2019s important. We feel like it\u2019s important to have our Lay Carmelites meet at a much bigger level than just the community, to really get that true sense of belonging to an Order. When you get together with a larger group\u2014whether it\u2019s a regional retreat, something like \u201cInto the Land of Carmel,\u201d or a convocation\u2014there\u2019s so much being offered now. Webinars, events, a lot of them are virtual. If you can\u2019t make it to Washington, D.C., you can watch it on a website. So there\u2019s a lot that\u2019s being offered now.<\/p>

So I would say those two things are probably going to keep us fairly busy for a while. I\u2019m sure there\u2019ll be other things coming on the horizon too\u2014things I don\u2019t know of right now.<\/p>

Ken Pino<\/strong><\/p>

I guess the only other thing\u2014because I think that covers the ministry pretty well\u2014but I always like to ask everyone: how do you feel that the Carmelite spirituality, the pillars of Carmel, being a Lay Carmelite\u2014how does that serve you and how do you apply that and live that? It\u2019s an 800-year-old tradition, but it still actively applies here in the 21st century. How do you live that or experience that?<\/p>

Cindy Perazzo<\/strong><\/p>

Hopefully I don\u2019t get too emotional about that question, because it\u2019s very important. It\u2019s very important to me.<\/p>

I will have to say that even though I didn\u2019t realize I was a Carmelite my whole life, even remembering as a child, I always kind of had that contemplative stance. I was a little bit on the quiet side. Not that all Carmelites are on the quiet side\u2014we certainly are not\u2014but I was, and still am, really, in a lot of ways.<\/p>

I kind of tell the story that my parents were very heavily into the charismatic movement. They were very active in that movement. Even as I started as a Carmelite, my mom and dad were constantly trying to convert me to the charismatics. It\u2019s a wonderful movement; it serves many, many people. But it didn\u2019t serve me at all.<\/p>

I just had to be honest with them and say, \u201cIt\u2019s just not me.\u201d I totally respected what they were doing. In the end, I think they were very proud that I followed my own path and that I was able to contribute in any way that I could.<\/p>

Being a Carmelite, I will say, is like breathing. It\u2019s not anything separate from my life. It\u2019s the way I address my life. It\u2019s the way I address people. It\u2019s the way I interact with others\u2014I hope.<\/p>

It just becomes something that\u2019s in your fiber; it\u2019s in your DNA. That\u2019s one thing we tell people who are looking into the Carmelites: eventually\u2014maybe not when they first start\u2014but eventually it will become like breathing. It will just be who you are.<\/p>

It\u2019s a beautiful gift to find that, because as I said earlier, there are a lot of people who are seeking and they just, frankly, never really find it, for whatever reason. But when you do find it, when you\u2019re accepted into a family like the Carmelites, it\u2019s life-changing. It really is.<\/p>

Ken Pino<\/strong><\/p>

I think a common theme I hear in answer to that question\u2014and I think I just heard it from you\u2014is that you don\u2019t learn to be a Carmelite; you discover that you have always been a Carmelite.<\/p>

Cindy Perazzo<\/strong><\/p>

One hundred percent. Exactly. Yeah.<\/p>

I remember Father Pat McMahon. He did a tape for us, and we still use it for our discussion groups that are groups of people who want to eventually become a Lay Carmelite community. It\u2019s called Nine Themes of Carmelite Spirituality<\/em>. You\u2019re familiar with that, I\u2019m sure\u2014you\u2019ve copied enough tapes for us. Oh, I date myself, you know, because it\u2019s not tapes anymore, right?<\/p>

Ken Pino<\/strong><\/p>

That\u2019s right. Yes, I still say to my son, \u201cCan we videotape that tonight?\u201d<\/p>

Cindy Perazzo<\/strong><\/p>

Right. No, we can\u2019t.<\/p>

I\u2019ll never forget\u2014and this is paraphrasing\u2014but he says, \u201cCarmel is an 800-year-old tradition, and you will never change it. But if you\u2019re lucky, it will change you.\u201d And that is the truth.<\/p>

Ken Pino<\/strong><\/p>

Very nice. Very nice. He is\u2014he\u2019s one of the names, Patrick McMahon, Jack Welsh\u2014that will be so missed for that wisdom.<\/p>

Cindy Perazzo<\/strong><\/p>

Huge losses, both of them. But we have their works. That will live on forever. So we\u2019re very fortunate there.<\/p>

Ken Pino<\/strong><\/p>

Yes. All right. Well, I want to thank you for your time. Thank you for sharing those stories and the information about the ministry. I certainly will share throughout. I\u2019ll have the website and any resources\u2014how they can get ahold of the office, the Lay Carmelite office in Darien\u2014if they\u2019re interested. And then from the website, of course, they can find local communities and regionals if they\u2019re interested in reaching out.<\/p>

And, yeah, I think that\u2019s it. Again, thank you. I appreciate it. I appreciate you sharing the personal stories. That\u2019s very powerful.<\/p>

Cindy Perazzo<\/strong><\/p>

Well, that\u2019s probably more than anybody ever wanted to know about Cindy Perazzo, but it is my story.<\/p>

Ken Pino<\/strong><\/p>

Yes. No, but I think that\u2019s what people do want to hear. I think they want that, because that is Carmel. The administrative bits have to happen in every Order, and that all has to happen. But hearing\u2014and in everything you said\u2014Carmel being present, I think that\u2019s important for people to hear and see. So, thank you.<\/p>

Cindy Perazzo<\/strong><\/p>

You\u2019re very welcome. Good to see you.<\/p>

Ken Pino<\/strong><\/p>

All right. All right.<\/p>

Cindy Perazzo<\/strong><\/p>

Happy Thanksgiving.<\/p>

Ken Pino<\/strong><\/p>

Happy Thanksgiving. Bye-bye, Cindy.<\/p>

Cindy Perazzo<\/strong><\/p>

Bye-bye.<\/p>

Ken Pino<\/strong><\/p>

Bye.<\/p>\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t

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